Curse

Effigy · Feb 10, 2006, 02:40 PM // 14:40

I think you guys are making this too complicated. It's easy to see why Sundering is weak: 10% penetration X 10% chance = 1% penetration over time, on average. That's right, on average a perfect Sundering mod is giving you 1% more armor penetration.

Zealous is nice for energy management, but if you want more DPS, vampiric is the way to go. Or elemental if you use conjures.

Nater · Feb 10, 2006, 07:55 PM // 19:55

So there's absolutely zero point in putting any points into Strength save for the skills?

Sol_Vie · Feb 10, 2006, 07:59 PM // 19:59

Wow an anti sundering thread that no one's flamed the OP for it. Amazing!

Vamp and Zealous are the only mods I'll currently use. I recently found a perfect furious mod and was wondering if by "Double Adren" is means that it doubles the amount you currently have or if it provides double the adren for that strike (i.e. you hit someone for 2 strikes of adren rather than the normal 1)?

unienaule · Feb 10, 2006, 08:11 PM // 20:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nater

So there's absolutely zero point in putting any points into Strength save for the skills?

What else would you put them in? Tactics? The reason to put them into strength is because there's really not that much else that is useful to most warriors, and since you could easily get a 9 in Str with no effort at all, that's 9%, not 1% and a wasted mod slot on your weapon.

Ensign · Feb 10, 2006, 10:25 PM // 22:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nater

So there's absolutely zero point in putting any points into Strength save for the skills?

Pretty much. Also if you're going to be dumping points somewhere it at least gives you something.

Peace,
-CxE

Riotact · Feb 12, 2006, 01:19 AM // 01:19

for an axe, whats better no upgrade or fire/ebon/lightning dmg? whats the difference if im a w/mo with no fire skills etc.

Effigy · Feb 12, 2006, 02:29 AM // 02:29

The difference between elemental mod and no mod is just the damage type. If the enemy has less fire/earth/cold/lightning resist than physical, it will do more damage. This is why it's good to use an elemental mod that isn't heavily resisted. Fire is the most common elemental resistance, so it's not a good choice usually.

Bleidd · Feb 12, 2006, 08:50 PM // 20:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Effigy

Zealous is nice for energy management, but if you want more DPS, vampiric is the way to go. Or elemental if you use conjures.

Agreed. Furious I suppose if you're using an adrenaline-intensive build; honestly I don't see how Sundering begins to measure up to the others. I do enjoy selling them to people that seem to be unable to do simple math though. ^^

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nater

So there's absolutely zero point in putting any points into Strength save for the skills?

1 point of Strength = 1% armour penetration per attack skill. That is, it doesn't affect your regular swings (so many people still seem to think this), only your attack skills (e.g. Cyclone Axe, Final Thrust, etc.).

From my own experience even 10% armour penetration (i.e. 10 Strength) doesn't amount to much. I'd probably drop Strength lower if I didn't use a Strength based shield (and only til I find a better Tactics one). Edit - This might be more effective with Axes or Hammers? I'm a sucker for swords and haven't really fooled with the other two.

My weapon of choice? Zealous [sword] of Defense, 15% ^50. But that suits my build. I guess I just fail to see where a Sundering mod would really compliment any build. Likewise with the Swordmanship et al mods...

Rajamic · Feb 12, 2006, 10:51 PM // 22:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Effigy

Zealous is nice for energy management, but if you want more DPS, vampiric is the way to go.

I'm going to have to disagree with this. I use a Zealous bow to increase my DPS, by it allowing me to spam bow attacks as soon as they recharge without letting up for about 2 minutes. That definitely improves my DPS, I'd argue it has more effect than a 5/1 string does over a long haul.

Symbol · Feb 12, 2006, 11:07 PM // 23:07

Wait, wait. I thought strength was 2% AP per point on everything. But it's actually 1% per point on attack skills? Has it always been broken like this?

Edit: NM, I just checked it out in game. Apparently it's intentional and the in game description is correct.

Effigy · Feb 13, 2006, 01:20 PM // 13:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rajamic

I'm going to have to disagree with this. I use a Zealous bow to increase my DPS, by it allowing me to spam bow attacks as soon as they recharge without letting up for about 2 minutes. That definitely improves my DPS, I'd argue it has more effect than a 5/1 string does over a long haul.

Well, you have a good point but you're looking at it kind of obliquely. Zealous helps energy management, not DPS. Energy management helps you sustain skill spamming for an extended period of time, which in turn raises your damage output. DPS is damage per second, and zealous isn't going to raise that because it doesn't increase your damage per hit and you can spam skills with or without the mod, you can just do it for a longer time period with. Hence, vampiric will improve your spike damage and zealous will improve your damage over time (assuming you use a fair amount of energy skills).

Mandy Memory · Feb 14, 2006, 12:28 AM // 00:28

5 vampiric damage and 1.33 attack time? you are using multiple weapons there...

Senator Tom · Feb 14, 2006, 06:12 AM // 06:12

lol billy
did you calculate the 10% chance that the sundering will even come into effect?

Warskull · Feb 14, 2006, 09:32 AM // 09:32

I have no clue where the actual numbers came from in this post and would not rely on them to be accurate at all. However the underlying message is true. Sundering is one of the worst mods in the game. If you want damage, vampic gives it. Zealous gives superb energy. If you want a weapon to swap to with no drawbacks furious is the way to go. Sundering is a miniscule damage increase.

As for strength, it really isn't that great. It will get you a couple of points of damage on your attack skills. It is really there for the skills and as a point dump.

erezsol · Feb 14, 2006, 09:57 AM // 09:57

BTW, can you put a Zealous / Vamp / Furious mod on an IDS/FDS?

kvndoom · Feb 14, 2006, 10:19 AM // 10:19

Sundering is e-penis enhancement. It sounds cool, you know. "Sundering!"

sun·der
v. sun·dered, sun·der·ing, sun·ders
v. tr.

To break or wrench apart; sever

Yes, my weapon is SUNDERING! I am leet and mighty!

No lie, I saw a W/Mo in Thunderhead last week spamming "W/Mo with 15k plate and Sundering Chaos Axe LFG." Uh, those are good credentials if I ever saw any. Sign him up, there's no way we can lose!

I know I sometimes rant in the anti-farming threads about the game being based on money and not skill, but that's not true. The economy is based on vanity, but thank goodness that money can't buy skill.

It's the Emperor's new clothes, folks... that false sense of security that you got something better just because you paid more.

H2SO4 · Feb 14, 2006, 03:56 PM // 15:56

meh aside form all the sums I see thisL: 10% chance of 10% armour penetration to me thats a 1 in ten chance of there being an extra 1/10 damage or whatever. I do have a sundering upgrade but only coz I canott get a bleeding one at the moment

Ghull Ka · Feb 14, 2006, 04:17 PM // 16:17

Firstly: I agree with the spirit that sundering is little more than a vanity device. Second, I hope that none of the patsies that I will be trying to sell that stinky Victo's Axe will read this thread. :-)

Worst mod in the game, preset on one of the neatest looking skins. Tragedy.

Warskull · Feb 15, 2006, 01:03 AM // 01:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ghull Ka

Firstly: I agree with the spirit that sundering is little more than a vanity device. Second, I hope that none of the patsies that I will be trying to sell that stinky Victo's Axe will read this thread. :-)

Worst mod in the game, preset on one of the neatest looking skins. Tragedy.

The best part is how the price on Victo's Blade plummeted while that is actually a perfect weapon. 15>50%, 3/1 Vampic, +30 HP. While armor may be more useful than HP, +30 HP is still a very respectable mod. People just don't like vampic weapons because they fail to understand how they are susposed to be used. You switch to a non-vampic between fights in PvE.

master_ranger_matt · Feb 17, 2006, 04:02 AM // 04:02

Sundering does not do that bad against tanks, and in PVP and PVE past kryta, elemental strings, hilts, etc. are terrible. The damage a sundering takes away is like taking away half of a piece of tank armor, which no matter your viewpoint is pretty good. Zealous is just plain bad i think because most of the time you are not actually attacking, and after experimenting with it, I don't think it works at all. So that leaves you with vampiric. they give decent damage, but they give that nasty -1 health degen. Vampiric isn't that bad, but not that good either. for PVP and PVE I always just use sundering because it is easier and a piddly 1-5 extra damge doesnt matter a whole lot (admit it, It might oinly give you 1 extra kill out of 50, not really worth the money, and not really worth the faction unless you have some to spare). So basically most mods don't really matter in thw whole scope of things. Sundering just gives you bragging rights and makes you seem rich.